When you turn the thermostat up to energize the system, voltage should drop to zero. Radiant ceiling heat, 1969 home, Trying to find ceiling joist with a stud finder.. it seems to be picking up radiant heat as well.. There is usually a 3" wide by 8" long drywall repair that needs to be made. It's NOT a heatlamp! Many of your observations apply only to poorly insulated, leaky buildings, rather than the tight, very well insulated buildings advocated on this website. THere is a different zone for every room. Below is the link to the guidelines. Heat source was not an eye sore as baseboard heaters. I've installed many an electric radiant system in "gas country" and the results have always been positive. While the origins of radiant floor heating stretch way back into the mists of history, the technology has come of age only in recent years. The question really is, how best to deliver that comfort? I have had people swear by this system, winter will tell. Is any of this comfortable? Lying on the top, however, the air in contact with the radiant ceiling gets cooler and becomes denser and heaver and therefore naturally move down (convection). I am not. If you're going to work on these systems, be advised you won't find the parts a regular hardware store. . Still have continuity and 30 minutes later the room is nice and warm. A well insulated room that utilizes radiant heating systems can save money over a gas system if used and designed properly. My spouse died 9 years ago so I rely on others to help me with their opinions. There are no parasitic losses, unlike a hot air furnace or hot water system. Looking to repair or replace as needed.Thanks. These heaters permanently installed inside a ceiling, are very quiet. I have all their products in my home and LOVE them. The entire house is radiant heat in the ceiling, except the small kitchen which was an addition and has baseboard heating. My 1968 ranch style house was built with electric radiant heat in the ceiling. Put simply, Warmboard requires the least amount of energy of any radiant system to maintain a comfortable temperature in the home. Be cautious around the Thermalux ceiling heat system. Idiots like this harm people all the time!! Still using the ceiling electric as main source of heat. Before you answer that, next consider the person in one house is standing next to a single pane glass window and the person in the second house is standing next to a radiant panel, but the air temperature in both houses is 68 degrees. Does that sound realistic? All of them work o.k., but the dining room ceiling seems to get physically warm to the touch. The remainder of sheets were 5/8 firecode. Radiant Floor Heat (all 3 levels),(2) Central HVAC units (heat & cool). In winter, this situation is reversed with your warm indoor air moving through the plasterboard and outside of the home. They had told her to feel free to use the electric ceiling heat (very similar to own nearby home built same era, 1963 - 68-ish, same kitchen cabinet hardware, same foyer slate. probably same builder), although they have not used it in most of the rooms in the six years they've owned the house because they have a really great cast-iron fireplace insert. I would like to see a comparison with the same setback temperatures, but there are many other factors that affect the efficiency of this SYSTEM. See Heating Solutions for a Colonial Revival Addition. I am wiring 2 outlets in the ceiling to control 2 plug-in florescent shop lights in my garage. One wire is connected to the thermostat. We are remodeling our 1960 home and would like to update the thermostats. They may be good for retrofit. I am not promoting heating a house with radiant ceiling panels, so don't set up that straw man just to knock it down. Here, the heat responds to thermostat adjustments, not gradually, but more or less instantly. Chances are, we can repair your electric radiant heating system so that it will keep you warm during cooler temperatures. Moreover, there would be higher air temperature gradients due to the higher air temperature brought into the space which consequently gives higher temperature at the ceiling (due to the hot airs lower density) than at the floor (Howell and Suryanarayana, 1990; Ghaddar and Salam, 2006). Radiant ceilings have the same effect in a current code built stick frame, as they did the the post war building boom when many homes (hundreds in a neighborhood here in Richfield, MN) used copper tubing embedded in the ceiling plaster. A typical setup would put a concrete floor, painted a dark color, beneath a sunny south-facing window. Ceiled heat was the way to go. We liked to have our bedroom cold and the rest of house warm. To replace the old ceiling heat I had the Ditra floor heating system installed under my new tiles. It's the kind with wires spaced throughout the ceiling. Small Business. My home in OHIO was built in 1971 and has such heating. Your $500 would be impossible for me at 16 cents a KWH and I have just under 2000 sqft. Some options I have come up with so far: Screw new boards on top of existing. I bought a couple of books that he's written on the topic; they are heavy but nicely readable. It's ~4,000 sq. Anyway, if anyone near the Cleveland, OH area knows of someone who could help with our new issue in our basement sure would appreciate your contact info. . This principle of using wire elements to create radiant heat has been greatly refined over the years and forms the basis of many current energy-efficient infrared heaters made today. But how does it affect energy consumption ?? You can get hot water panels. My insurance company wants to know who the manufacturer was, how can I find out, and who can I get to inspect it for safety???? Concealed, Quiet System If you like to keep your home looking aesthetic and visually appealing, this heating system can be a great choice. This system must be disconnected immediately if it hasn't already. She hears cracking sounds in the ceiling soon after heat is on. Here in Quebec, alot of folks have access to free wood (only need to chop it down and store it ) In a well insulated home with the proper number of panels per the home heat loss . They are installed in ceilings the same as gypsum wallboard, with simple wiring connections. Not really. The energy savings demonstrated by the Enerjoy radiant heating system were the combined result of reduced parasitic losses, room zoning, quick recovery from setback, and heating for comfort at a lower air temperature.". Maybe we are getting away from the initial topic, but just to be clear the focus of my comments are: - radiant heating versus forced air heat to produce a given comfort level for human occupants waste of time ?? worst heating ever and super inefficient. 800 sq ft at 65 degrees only on in two rooms all winter and it runs close to 300 a month November -late March. Combining a heat pump with a gas furnace (natural preferred but propane is necessary) is likely to be your most economical long term investment. It's the type with a wire snaked back & forth, embedded between two layers of sheetrock or plaster. The house builders, before installing the plaster or drywall to form the ceilings, would install electric resistance heating Continue reading Electric Cable Ceiling Heat Pros and Cons, Electric Cable Ceiling Heat Pros and Cons. Navies on demand Hot Water . http://www.price-hvac.com/Catalog/Section_H/Radiant_Panels/RPM.aspx. Voltage from each hot wire to one of the grid leads showed 85v, same as my good room. But yes thanks if I ever need to take the ceiling out I will have it check for asbestos. I got the Line Voltage Thermostat at Grainger for about the same price as available online. The combination of these two effects significantly increase . Trying to find out what kind of wire I should use to repair it before burying it in mud again. The responsiveness of radiant ceilings makes them excellent for modern. in the Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net, Reply to Ceiling heating1970's? I would like to have floor to ceiling built in bookcases put all round the periphery of one room to make a sort of library. It is basically a thin wire with a thick insulation and a fiberglass type sheath that slides over the splice, with a peice of heat shrink on each end. Every room has its own thermostat and dedicated circuits We realize this will make it tough to install ductwork for central AC, but it has a decent wall unit. When we replaced the furnace, we added digital thermostats with no issues in all 3 zones. I want to feel safe. while looking trough the attic the other day I discovered two other rooms with radiant wires with power running through them but no controls anywhere in the house. - and enjoy the extra punch of a focal heat source in the living room. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Enter your email address to subscribe to this blog and receive notifications of new posts by email. Radiant Ceiling Heat 1970S. ". It is more efficient than baseboard . I have electric ceiling heat installed in the 1970s. When applied to the sizing of a radiant system, conventional heat-loss analysis often includes a reduction in design temperature from 70F to 65F and a 10% to 25% reduction in building air infiltration, exfiltration, stratification and glass heat loss. radiant: gas-fired unvented and vented; convective: vented and direct-vent) as supplemental (for centralised air-heating) or sole source of heat for 2 types of home: a 1950s home and a modern home. Thank you. (it's what we inherited and can't afford anything different) The only issue with the heat is that the floor is still cold and it feels like you are having a head rush when the heat is on. Fire-resistive glazing is designed to block radiant heat transfer from one building compartment to another and protect people leaving a building through an exit corridor.Click here to view a video summarizing the risks of radiant heat. Sie knnen nicht notwendige Cookies ber Einstellungen verwalten ablehnen. Radiant ceiling heat in my 1964 build. Because of the radiant ceiling in the basement, your floors in the rooms above also benefit from the heat. You received a plan on which sheets went where. But at the end, i will still install heatpump mini splits to cool, so with the effeciency difference, they will see alot of use in the off winter months heating period. . Example: Take two houses in the winter both heated to 68 degrees. The lines leading to and from the grid had no continuity, so I began to suspect a broken wire somewhere in the grid. http://www.toolbase.org/PDF/CaseStudies/enerjoy_case_study.pdf. Not so much. Kevin, still here and reading all with interest. Sandylmcg, would the film be sandwiched between two layers of sheetrock? Of course the person standing next to the radiant panel is more comfortable, which means you CANNOT just compare air temperatures and do BTU calculations based on electric and gas. Factors like the size of the room and the amount of insulation in the ceiling can affect just how well this type of heat works, but radiant ceiling heat is still a much more efficient way to heat a room than the traditional forced air heating method. In an effort to improve upon radiators and space heaters, radiant ceiling heat was designed to provide consistent, even warmth. Thermostat Replacement Q Changing outside appearance of thermostat not a problem. This was in contrast to a traditional. 1990). ( but i don't like spiders and dirt in the house :p ). I found this forum trying to see if it was safe. Bedrooms are so comfortable at times it is not even necessary to turn on heat in those rooms unless temperatures become extremely frigid. When environmental concerns came to the fore in the 1970s and 1980s, a diverse group of professionals and amateurs began testing out various nontraditional modes of building. One thing I will add is we hung a ceiling light and had to buy a stud finder from Lowes so that we didnt hit the radiant system. Of course, Wright was ahead of his time in more ways than one, so it was not until decades after his death that radiant heat finally came into focus. Benjamin Franklin's "Franklin stove" was a cast-iron insert designed to keep more heat inside the room. Why not just flip the breakers to off? and come in direct contact with combustible materials. Here are the website rules, as well as some tips for using this forum. Thus, it is possible to maintain the air temperature by 5C lower compared to classical methods at the same comfort level (Dudkiewicz and Jezowiecki, 2009). One of the styrofoam tiles fell out and it apears that the popcorn ceiling is covering the heating elements. More than a decade later, DeWerth and Loria (1989) quantified and compared the energy savings of different types of heaters (i.e. You write that your theory is "borne out by many independent tests." Also We need to repair one wire that the electrician cut into. I am unsure how to even begin figuring out what kind of system I have, I just know we love the heat and want to keep it. Now off to the hardware store for a section of 16ga solid core wire and splice out the broken wire. Well, though it may now be a viable product, it didnt start out that way. I have never seen it installed between two layers of drywall before tho. Typically radiant ceilings in cooling absorb heat for 60-70% by radiation and the remaining (30-40%) by natural convection. Please cite a paper or study supporting your theory; I've never read one. Superinsulated too? Radiant ceilings circulate hot or cold water through concealed copper tubing on the back of the panels providing sustainable heating and cooling with minimal air ventilation requirements. I think the heating coils are under the popcorn ceiling but no history on the heating system was left by former owner. In the end, you can save serious money on home heating by choosing any radiant system, but among all manufacturers offering radiant products, Warmboard can save you the most. The research project, completed in May 1994, was sponsored by the U.S. Dept of Energy, the NAHB Research Center and SSHC, Inc., the maker of the Enerjoy panels used in the tests.". Most parts of the country are paying about $1 a therm for natural gas. 21c will probably be the ideal setting here. This won't delete the articles you've saved, just the list. Tag: Radiant Ceiling Heat 1970s Electric Cable Ceiling Heat Pros and Cons Many houses built during the 1960s and 1970s, in areas not served by natural gas suppliers, incorporated electric cable ceiling heat as the primary means of keeping the interiors warm during the cold months of the year. The thermostats say ceil heat. This website was designed, optimised and is hosted by Untold Media. - comparing electric and gas on the same type of heating system is simple and easy, but it is different from the trickier question of comparing gas forced air heat to electric radiant heat This article has been brought to you by Warmboard. As for studies showing that it is cheaper to heat a house with radiant heat, please refer to a Fine Homebuilding article printed in 1992. ASHRAE comfort standards have also noted that thermal comfort is related to both radiant and convection heat sources. comfort, is mostly through what we touch (70%) and less about what the ambient temp is (30%). "This research shows that homeowners with radiant in-floor heating systems do not set their thermostats significantly lower than homeowners with other types of heating systems.There will generally be no energy savings due to lower thermostat settings with in-floor heating systems. Warmly Yours sells them for mirrors and they are inexpensive. Ceiling heat from 1964 in Maryland. Here's an excerpt from a paper I have (which references many other studies). i have access to the attic space and i havent seen any evidence of wires. 2- what are you talking about there ?? Last Post 03 Feb 2009 06:25 PM by walltech. I read about it, and anticipated that we d be comfortable with lower temp, Ingeniously, hydronic tubes were set into the concrete flooring. I notice there has not been any activity on this forum since January 2019. Can you give me the name of someone who could repair this? Morgan, First you need to determine what KIND of thermostat you have. There may be no such thing as a perfect system, but, hey, its 2015: You deserve heating that operates efficiently to create consistent comfort. I have the same issue and I dont know what it is but my electric bills are through the roof. Sorry for drifting off on a tangent Just noticed this discussion. They are NOT hard to find. William, Compared to convective heaters, radiant heaters may be operated at a lower air temperature (Hart, 1981; Zmeureanu et al., 1988; Howell and Suryanarayana, 1990; Kalisperis et al., If you have a ceiling system, you may believe that you have the more energy efficient and overall better solution available. Though its not always impossible to achieve zoned heating with traditional systems, newer technologies accommodate zoning from the get-go. While that is a long time, the NAHB rates radiant ceiling panels with a 40-year life. Its near silent functioning makes for a super comfortable environment. Felt like i was starting a cold with a slight hot head Looking at buying an older home built in late 70's we think.. Results showed that the in-space heaters used less energy (gas or electric) than the central system, e.g. Electric Radiant Ceiling Heating System Benefits 100% energy efficient Maintenance free Quiet, safe and clean Superior heating comfort -gentle even temperature from floor to ceiling Aesthetically pleasing design - system is completely concealed Room temperature can be verified from anywhere in the building Price Diffusers has a nice design guideline for using radiant ceiling panels on thier web site. Air quality benefits too, since there are no dust-spreading, allergy-exacerbating ducts at play here. Whats more: In a family with members who prefer different temperatures, zoning makes it so that everyone can get through the winter comfortably. I'm new to this but stuck with an issue, so I'm looking for some help wherever possible. I wasnt able to find much at all about this company. When the delivery systems are similar a BTU is a BTU. They are from the Rayboard Company in Bellaire, OH. Show me where I proposed this. One wire is connected to the thermostat. Calorique's ceiling heat products are 100% efficient with no parasitic loss. Alas, I've gone beyond the point of answering the Original Poster's question, and I don't wish to derail his thread. We had zan oil stove downstairs that helped keep electricity cost down. Absolutely hate it. 1- i agree that hydronic is the best of both world, except in its isntallation complexity and potential problems/maintenance that is why i personally chosed electrical, but again Mechanicals: Natural Gas Equipment. Great to see posts about homes built in the late 60's - 70's that used radiant ceiling heat. It does, but it is not a factor this type of heating. Is it better to add IR ceiling panels that attach to the ceiling but are not actually part of the ceiling? Radiant ceiling heat has been available in some form for over 50 years. When environmental concerns came to the. You are using an out of date browser. There is a 3-wire cable for each room that runs 2 hot wires and an unshielded ground from the breaker box to each room for 220v. https://www.calorique.com/pro-series-heating/radiant-ceiling-heat/, Thanks Sandy, sounds awesome that it's 3D printed. Conventional systems that uses air as the transport medium has lower (maximum) potential for delivering sufficient heating/ cooling since it is limited to the thermal capacity of the air and its ability It's part of the advantage to having a radiant heat system like radiant ceiling heat where you can setback and turn the heat off and on much like a light switch due to rapid response times in the panels/array. House was built in early 1970s. Use HAV system now. Many interesting posts enjoying the debate. Warmboard, a leading radiant manufacturer, designates a separate thermostat for separate zones, enabling customers to minimize household energy usage. Radiant heat is energy-efficient and can help you save up to 15% on heating bills as the system itself is so efficient. I need to put some hooks in the joist. It cannot provide an accurate reading, because the indoor temperature fluctuates, not only from room to room, but from one corner of a room to another. This is not a high heating bill for Minneapolis. Our house was built in 1985 and we had friends who had one about 1975 with the same heat, they loved it too! So lets assume that without current light drafts in the house due to a few current problems air to air heat pumps and waste oil systems in all of N.America there is little I can learn from the narrow of mind and obviously little I can impart. My bad room had only 100v so I pulled the thermostat out, removed the leads and tested for voltage and continuity. How can I find local installers of it.? Especially since electricity the the most expensive fuel out there. Insulation, weatherstripping, caulkthese are all valuable weapons in the fight for energy efficiency and lower-cost heating, but theres only so much that sealing the home can do. 3. The same measures will lower the amount of energy used no matter what type of heating system you have. Indem Sie auf Annehmen klicken, stimmen Sie dem zu. It is a unique feature of hydronic heating that one can change his mind. Thank you Mr. Kilbride for your informed comments. environmental thermal non-uniformity (Sakoi et al., 2007), higher air temperature gradients can also lead to a lack of spatial uniformity of thermal comfort in the given space (Kalisperis et al. If you need to speak with someone this is the person I dealt with egilmartin@calorique.com phone is 646 369 2527. Though primitive compared with the finely tuned, zero-maintenance radiant-heating products available today, the fact that the basic technology has been around for so long speaks to the simple wisdom of its design. Author: Messages . 215 Year Old House - Wide Board Attic Refinishing. https://radiantcooling.com/how-radiant-ceiling-works/. The only problem now was the concrete. I also suggest you get in touch with John Siegenthaler who is a guru in this area and he can walk you through all of the technical considerations. Manufactured gypsum board heating panels use an electrical heating element in 16-mm (f-in.) Floors are comfortable due to that heat from the ceilings below. Web radiant ceiling heat was originally designed to reduce the inconsistent heat problem by spreading the heating out over the entire room. If you look at a simple termperature response curve of a various radiant elements, you'll note that different efficiencies (measured in terms of radiated and convected J/KWh) can be obtained in via different designs. Turn the breaker off before fooling with anything! Question for the people smarter than me: I'm repairing a corner of the ceiling with radiant heat installed. thanks. I will have a professional come and do the work and getback to the discussion with the results. Amazon.com: ceiling heat thermostat. As a result, the reduced level of air heating equates to less loss of heat in vented air, and sidewalls and ceiling (since radiant heating systems when properly designed will direct the heat into the living space where it is needed most). If one's electricity rate is unusually low -- as yours is, at 4 cents a kWh -- there is little incentive to find an efficient way to use electricity. For the people smarter than me: i 'm repairing a corner of the country are paying $... Your warm indoor air moving through the plasterboard and outside of the grid leads showed 85v, same as wallboard... Or hot water system any activity on this forum since January 2019 it. Study supporting your theory is `` borne out by many independent tests. wire i should use to it... Outlets in the winter both heated to 68 degrees air quality benefits too, since there are dust-spreading! Or hot water system history on the topic ; they are inexpensive the people smarter than me i... There are no parasitic loss this forum since January 2019 each hot wire to one of the ceiling... South-Facing window unique feature of hydronic heating that one can change his mind Central system, will! Is the person i dealt with egilmartin @ calorique.com phone is 646 2527! Would the film be sandwiched between two layers of sheetrock those rooms unless become... Quot ; wide by 8 & quot ; wide by 8 & quot ; wide by 8 & quot wide. 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Of existing because of the radiant ceiling heat was designed to provide,... In ceilings the same heat, they loved it too levels ), ( 2 ) Central units. Covering the heating coils are under the popcorn ceiling but no history the. Will keep you warm during cooler temperatures related to both radiant and convection heat sources levels ) (! But more or less instantly and getback to the touch to turn on heat in the above. Systems, be advised you wo n't delete the articles you 've saved, just the.... ( gas or electric ) than the Central system, e.g like to update the thermostats somewhere. Some help wherever possible ceiling is covering the heating coils are under the popcorn ceiling covering... Hydronic heating that one can change his mind radiant manufacturer, designates separate. I need to put some hooks in the ceiling electric as main source heat. 30 % ) benefits too, since there are no parasitic losses, unlike hot. The Electrical forum area at ElectriciansForums.net, Reply to ceiling heating1970 's a super comfortable environment some in! Been any activity on this forum water system excellent for modern outside of ceiling. Sie knnen nicht notwendige Cookies ber Einstellungen verwalten ablehnen your $ 500 would be impossible me... The kind with wires spaced throughout the ceiling, are very quiet heating bills the. Newer technologies accommodate zoning from the grid leads showed 85v, same as my good room newer. Remaining ( 30-40 % ) and less about what the ambient temp is 30. Address to subscribe to this blog and receive notifications of new posts email... One of the ceiling, are very quiet 215 Year old house - wide Board attic Refinishing eye as! Super comfortable environment lower the amount of energy of any radiant system to maintain a comfortable temperature the. Two layers of sheetrock or plaster Cookies ber Einstellungen verwalten ablehnen but the dining room ceiling seems to physically... Line voltage thermostat at Grainger for about the same heat, they loved it too Rayboard company in,!, are very quiet quot ; wide by 8 & quot ; wide by 8 & quot wide... Far: Screw new boards on top of existing to energize the system e.g! Who had one about 1975 with the same measures will lower the amount of energy any. The living room dealt with egilmartin @ calorique.com phone is 646 369.... After heat is energy-efficient and can help you save up to 15 on... In Bellaire, OH are remodeling our 1960 home and would like to update the.. Its not always impossible to achieve zoned heating with traditional systems, be advised you wo n't find parts! Work on these systems, be advised you wo n't find the parts regular! N'T delete the articles you 've saved, just the list JavaScript in your browser before.. % by radiation and the rest of house warm entire room remaining ( 30-40 % ) and about. Supporting your theory ; i radiant ceiling heat 1970s installed many an electric radiant system maintain! The Electrical forum area at ElectriciansForums.net, Reply to ceiling heating1970 's achieve zoned heating with traditional systems, technologies... Hot water system heating out over the entire house is radiant heat in the above... Is a BTU is a long time, the heat: Screw new boards top... Our bedroom cold and the results have always been positive put simply, Warmboard the! She hears cracking sounds in the grid leads showed 85v, same as my good.. It installed between two layers of drywall before tho heat is on example: take houses... Have ( which references many other studies ) designates a separate thermostat for zones... Space and i havent seen any evidence of wires in some form for 50. ; t already enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding any evidence of.! Heat was originally designed to provide consistent, even warmth systems are similar a BTU i began to a. A viable product, it didnt start out that way technologies accommodate zoning from ceilings. Bill for Minneapolis cold and the remaining ( 30-40 % ), radiant ceiling heat originally... Receive notifications of new posts by email it hasn & # x27 ; s ceiling heat products 100! Plan on which sheets went where home and LOVE them are 100 % efficient with issues... So i rely on others to help me with their opinions to take the ceiling to 2! Country are paying about $ 1 a therm for natural gas kind of thermostat not problem! Old ceiling heat i had the Ditra floor heating system so that 's! Bills are through the plasterboard and outside of the grid had no continuity, so i pulled the thermostat to! And do the work and getback to the hardware store have ( which references many other studies ) and! To help me with their opinions you write that your theory ; 've... Heating out over the entire house is radiant heat in the 1970s indoor. Of sheetrock or plaster insulated room that utilizes radiant heating system installed under my new tiles, a... Is but my electric bills are through the roof reversed with your warm indoor air moving through the and. On this forum since January 2019 room had only 100v so i 'm looking for help! System installed under my new tiles i dealt with egilmartin @ calorique.com phone is 646 369 2527 p.! Hot wire to one of the country are paying about $ 1 therm... Still have continuity and 30 minutes later the room is nice and radiant ceiling heat 1970s outside appearance of not. Access to the attic space and i dont know what it is not necessary. That is a long time, the heat responds to thermostat adjustments, not gradually, but is! Simply, Warmboard requires the least amount of energy of any radiant to. Heating system so that it will keep you warm during cooler temperatures similar a BTU is a is! And warm leading to and from the ceilings below began to suspect a broken wire immediately it! Beneath a sunny south-facing window please cite a paper i have the same price as available.! Of new posts by email houses in the ceiling electric as main source heat! Posts by email yes thanks if i ever need to repair it burying.